Prejudice against Weckl

[five eight]

I was at one of the area jam nights Tuesday and a young drummer (21?) was talking trash about Weckl. He held his hand about two feet off the floor and said Weckl was a little bitty guy and he talks like (Mickey Mouse voice.) I was so pissed off I had to walk away or I'd've slugged the guy/kid. This guy is a good drummer but a damn sight from a great drummer like Weckl.

The D-Man has provided many of us with untold hours of listening pleasure and nobody but nobody tunes their drums better than Dave.

Drummers the world over are supposed to be a fraternity. Maybe I've missed it but I see no guitar support groups akin to HOD.

I see this 'slant' against Weckl (sometimes in HOD) and it's uncool. It's okay for Vinnie to blow his stack every now and then but it's not okay for Weckl to have a bad day or an attitude. Why? Because Vinnie's a little taller? Chad Wackerman, Rod Morgenstein, Ringo, Keith Moon and many other fantastic drummers are/were men of small stature, or short shits (I deplore the term but I'm using it to make a point, this epithet is as awful as the N-word.) Abe Jr's a big guy and nobody lauds him because of that; it's only his musicianship that counts. Why can't it be the same for DW? His talent's as big or bigger than anybody else's; HE IS IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS THE CELEBRATED MR. COLAIUTA. Steve Holmes has Dave's name right beside Vinnie's on the home page and that's got to mean something. Why doesn't Dave get the respect that Vinnie gets in the drumming community?

This is in no way, shape or form a dig against anybody here. I participate in HOD because I learn something new every time I login, so can somebody please help me understand what's up with that?

[drum4fun]

Five Eight, I wouldn't take that 21 year old drummer's comments too seriously. Some people just like to criticize others in order to make themselves feel better. Dave Weckl possesses amazing drum skills. I think most drummers would agree with that sentiment.

Regarding your comment about Vinnie being more celebrated in the drum world than Dave Weckl, I think that might be due to Vinnie playing in a wide variety of areas (i.e. rock, jazz, fusion, pop, and country) so he reaches a wider audience.

[FlamTriplet]

It's fun to rag on the Weck. He can't swing(unlike Vinnie) and he has that over used and abused 12" splash. Plus he plays with complete relaxation and dynamic exactness that just doesn't cut it in a metal band. And, he doesn't screw up enough. He plays flawlessly with Chick and the gang. And rips it real swell with his own group.

Okay, maybe I'm just joking(he really can't swing though) Weckl is one of my personal favorite drummers, and I always get a kick out of his playing. But then again I just heard a great boot of Dennis with Sco back in the day, and it was pretty insane. Made me think that Virgil Donati borrowed a lot of shit from Dennis(who borrowed shit from Billy) and so on....

[leedaviesdrums]

I agree with the comments about Vinnie being involved in a wider range of styles, that IS why he gets more exposure IMHO.
But personally for me Dave's playing is so damn tasty he really does improve everytime i see him.

Im only 22 and i will admit that when i was about 12i used to slag other players off but jeez you learn your lesson for him to be bad mouthing at 21 he must have some personal issue's happening.

Lets keep this great community together!

[PencilZ]

hmm....Vinnie is like the drum companies that rise and fall.
He's flavor of the month as Dave WAS. Peter erskines teacher(according to petes book) said that..."Theres always that new kid with the purple stix around the corner".
Daves had his purple stix and now vinnies picked them up. Who will be next?

There'll always be the loyal supporters who stick from the beginning to the end with their Hero's and, the same applies for the jumping ship rats who, continue to jump onto the next drummer till that ship docks and they've had enough of the tour.

Theres no pleasing people All of the time.

One thing though.....Dave would never suit Stings band(subjective thought) where as vinnie fits in like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. He compliments and raises stings material to another level in my view. Like copeland fitted and made the police. (in a drumming sense).

You cant take daves GREATNESS away. He's already achieved in the drumming world, feats once not thought possible on a kit, as Bozzio did when he played the black page. Its only music.

[Steve Holmes]

Dave can't swing?
Hmmmm.....that would be wrong.

Dave swung his ass off with Mike Stern. Not to mention the (Oh nothing) GRP ALL STAR BIG BAND. The Live In Japan vid has got some great swing, not to mention the insane chart reading skillz, something else incredibly difficult. Dave dances through charts laying the toughest ensemble figures to waiste with insane fills in between and a nice feel throughout.

Sure he wouldnt get the call back on a MEGADEATH audition. I don't think he would want that call.
Nor would I.

[Dazzler]

Interesting comments about Dave's so-called inablility to swing. I agree that he's no Tain or Billy Higgins and that he has a more 'fusion' way of swinging, but it works. I know exactly what you mean and how you hear his swing feel, but just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons.... Vinnies big band playing on the Buddy Rich tribute was shocking. His jazz feel was terrible. He never phrases on the 'and of four' and everything is square. His ride time is dreadful really. Seriously, put it on and listen to his ride cymabal, it's very square and it doesn't 'dance' at all. He fills EVERY phrase that the band play and leaves no space for the music to breath. On that particular ocassion, he truly sounds like a rock drummer trying to play jazz.
Weckl on the other hand sounds great on the Chick Acoustic Band albums. Great time, great phrasing and hip, modern chops.

[Dazzler]

........ just read your comments Steve and would definitely agree. I forgot about the GRP Big Band Albums. His playing is so tasteful and musical. Also check out the GRP West Side Story album. The charts are really complicated and yet Dave's feel, phrasing and taste are a joy to listen to. He never sounds lumpy and his jazz (ride) feel is always spot on.

[PocketPlayer]

"hmm....Vinnie is like the drum companies that rise and fall. He's flavor of the month as Dave WAS."

I guess it's late 'cus I may have missed somethin here. Vinnie is the flavor of the month??? YIKES. Now who sounds like a kid. Again, I'm SURE I missed the context of that statement...Ah Choo..ZAPPA.

As for the 21yo flaming. Geez, welcome to LA. Wait until I stand in line Sat to see Virgil. Usually he is practicing wq/band outside and you can here his DB flurries. No doubt there will be some posers with comments..."Virgil is the best man, he blows Weckl, Chambers out of the water." Then the doors open and the band goes out for food. These guys always curl up when faced with reality. I'm just glad the guy was 21. What scares me is a 41yo w/the same attitude.

Pride comes before the fall. Great minds will always be encountered with mediocre spirits. Just the way it is. Like ol' Bob said in the movie, What About Bob?..."When someone calls and it's the wrong number, I just hang up!"

[palmerlouie]

Drum4fun got it spot on! vinnie plays in more musical sytles than dave and there is always a new cd with vinnie on but with dave its like once a year! vinnie reaches a wider audience and if dave was playing with sting and faith id be an even bigger fan cause id see him more etc!

whoever made the utterly stupid and ignorant comment about dave not being able to swing is quite frankly.......WRONG! as dazzler and steve said listen to the GRP and west side story albums.......if there is anyone who cant swing its dennis (on the jazz superstars album). However thats probably why one of the greatest pianists on the planet hired dave.......chick had always been looking for a drummer that cant swing!?

five eight is definitely right about people going more mad about vinnie. but when i listen to the jing chi album which i like (plus others) it always sounds to me as if he overplays in terms of volume and is sometimes trying to trip the band up and be clever. Dave plays soooo musically and organically......and the reason he "never makes mistakes" is because he is so damn good! in his mind its like "do i need to make a mistake?"

down to the way he touches the drums and the interplay he has with chick and wiengart is outstanding. Dave could 100% handle the sting gig......the subtle textures and emotions he can create would go so well.......its just cause we only see him doing the jazz thing that we dont consider it.

Minimum input, maximum output.......thats also why i like dennis so much. he plays so effortlessly and tastefully and dynamically. to me vinnie just plays loud......i mean on the document album the latin beat he plays is poo compared to the amazing rhythms that dave comes up with. and on "nothing personal" his solo just leaves me bored! why did modern drummer give that 10/10? i just hope they dig weckls new live album cause if u compare his studio work to the live stuff.......its on a different planet!

im trying not to have a go a vinnie and dont want to start another debate, i just get sick of hearing the comments that five eight hears!